Specifically, I want a vet who takes the time to answer my questions and listen to my concerns. The first vet I took Phoebe to didn't seem interested in listening to me or explaining anything that he had so say, so he won't be seeing her again. I recently met a second avian vet in my area who is much easier to talk with and she'll be seeing both of my birds in the next couple weeks.

Speaking of which, I think you're better off, at least in theory, with an actual avian vet (board certified) rather than just a vet who happens to work on birds sometimes. It's not a guarantee, but I like the fact that the new vet I mentioned is certified, that gives me a bit more confidence in her.

Annual exams run $100-$250 per year depending on what tests you get and (I assume) what part of the world you're in. That's something you should budget for. There's bird-health-care insurance available for pretty cheap (a few dollars a month, if I remember correctly) and that might be worth looking into. Or you can just keep an extra credit card laying around in case of veterinary emergencies.

Nate Waddoups
Redmond WA USA

I realize that the "certified avian vet" title means a lot to some people, I just wanted to point out that there are excellent avian vets that choose not to become certified for many reasons - the least of which is lack of skill or knowledge or experience. There are many wonderful vets, avian and otherwise, who believe that the creation of the ABVP (in the U.S.) would lead to - and has led to - the development of an elitist mentality in their profession. In addition, there are vets who have worked mainly in the avian field their entire careers and simply see no need to get a title to "prove" themselves. (I can think of 2 vets off the top of my head who have practiced avian medicine only for decades and have the respect of their peers as well as their clients, yet chose not to become certified.)

Several years ago I copied this from the ABVP website: "ABVP Diplomates provide much the same type of services as do many non-boarded veterinarians. Certainly there are many non-certified veterinarians providing veterinary services at a level equal to or above their ABVP colleagues."

I wouldn't argue with someone who wanted to use only board-certified avian vets, certainly that's every bird owner's choice :)...but I did want to point out that the idea they are always the best vets for our birds is erroneous.


ChiaOwl
http://www.owly.net
http://www.ittybittybirdiebites.com

At the risk of getting a lot of hate mail from everyone I am gong to make a few comments based on my own personal opinions about Vets and birds. The gist of these comments can be summed up in an observation made by a child in famous fairytale when he said
‘Look! The emperor has no clothes!’

ONE IN A MILLION
I believe that, based on the population of captive birds in the United States that get veterinary attention, it requires a population of at least one million people to support one serious full time bird doctor. Based on this it is likely you will live at least an hour away from an SBD (my slang for a ‘Serious Bird Doctor’).

Below is a typical list, I took of the internet, off things to consider when choosing a Vet. These are things I do not look for when trying to find a SBD.

“The Bird Hospital's Great Vet Checklist Test:
Does your vet...
• Work with pet birds on a regular basis?
• Do a complete physical examination of your bird, including questions about behavior, diet, housing, exposure to toxins, etc.?
• Recognize any abnormalities in your bird?
• Try to make a diagnosis before conducting numerous and expensive tests?
• Recommend annual wellness checkups for your pet bird?
• Test all pet birds for contagious diseases?
• Conduct a series of two tests the first year for chlamydia?
• Vaccinate big birds for polyomavirus?
• Recommend that you choose a formulated diet (not whole seeds) for your pet bird?
• Provide an emergency service team that is experienced in the treatment of birds?
• Give you the opportunity to ask questions?”

An SBD does not trim nails, clip wings or discuss the advantage of choosing a formulated diet over seed. Nor do I think it wise to put your bird at risk by making the trip for such things.

The initials DMV, ABVP behind a name are often not as much help as you can get from a migrant bird keeper at your local chicken ranch. Most of our vet’s bird knowledge we owe to the poultry industry anyway. I think what a lot of people are looking fore and don’t know it is an SBD and since I have coined this name I have also set the qualifications.
• He must treat birds daily. Not regularly, which may be once a month.
• A large percentage of his patients must be from out of town with some from out of state. The better he is the farther they drive.
• He must have a referral from at least one other SBD. Although Eagles are rare and their territory is vast they know their neighbors and recognize other eagles when they see one.

EMERGENCIES
For poisoning only

Have your credit card ready and call this number. 1-800-548-2423 or 1-900-680-0000. It’s the National Animal Poison Control Center. It will cost you $50 and is worth every penny. These people are the best at what they do.
Last year my Macaw got a hold of one of my ink pens. He had ink allover inside his beak. I panicked and called these people. They said that normally an ink pen is poisonous and wanted me to get the bird and myself ready to go to the nearest emergency vet and gave me the name, address and phone number on the spot. Then they said they would call me back in 10 minutes with some more information. When they called back they had an avian vet that specialized in bird poisoning and a chemical engineer with the MSDS for the type of ink in this ink pen. After a brief discussion they agreed that this type of ink was a new type with a rubbery texture and they asked me to confirm this. Then they told me this ink was totally harmless and all I had to do is swab the excess out of his beak. End of story except to say if you do have to go to the emergency room they contact the ER vet and tell him exactly what to do. The case stays open till it’s resolved at no additional charge. This phone number is a keeper and is hard to find in a panic

I now have similar arrangement with my SBD and the animal ER, 5 minutes away for any other type of emergency. I can also get a phone consultation at a reduced price from my SBD. We both agree that some problems don’t requite putting a bird under the stress of a vet visit and 3 hour round trip drive.

This is my list of things to consider on your first visit to a new vet.

• A well bird checkup is probably best for a first visit only because you won’t to make sure that you really don’t need help with a sick bird. This way if things go badly you can give him a piece of your mind and walk out without your bird paying the penalty.
• Call before you leave for the appointment. Some Vets are consistent over-bookers. Let them know just how long you’re willing to wait to see the Vet. If they make you wait till you’re mad, make a seen and leave. Starting a relation with someone your already mad at will cost you down the line.
• Make sure the new Vet understands your expectations up front. My expectations are simple. That the Vet doses no harm my birds. That is to say if the bird leaves no worse off than he came in, I will be satisfied. Expect or demand more than this and sooner or later your bird will come out worse than he went in.
• Don’t ask questions you don’t already know the answer too. The visit will start something this. Vet, “So, How can we help you today? You, “I would like to start by asking how many primary feathers my bird should normally have.” He will be suppressed at the question but should reply with ’20, 10 per wing. If he starts hedging and says something like “why do you ask”, Say “Would you trust a pediatrician that didn’t know how many fingers your child was supposed to have? Than, ask him again. If you don’t get an answer, walk out.
• Assuming you got past the first question, then ask “When my bird takes of from his perch, how long does it take before he switches from anaerobic flight to aerobic flight?” It’s OK if he hedges on this one. Its one of those complicated “depends” kind of answers. He may reply “I’m a Vet not a molecular biologist. Just laugh and ask him to take a wild guess. He may ask if you if you know the answer so have one ready. My answer is. “It’s a difficult question but in my opinion it happens is something less than a minute. I assure you he will remember you for this question.
• Lastly and most importantly. Be able to present your bird for a physical. After some bad experiences I don’t let the Vet or Vet assistant hold my birds. I do all the holding. It less stress on the Vet, on me and on the birds. There are about 10 things involved in a proper exam. Learn what they are and teach them to your bird. He should calmly hold still and come to enjoy this. The only tools you will need are a penlight, a set of Walkmwn head phones with a quarter taped on the end to simulate a stethoscope and a bird scale. Five minutes a day for a couple of weeks and your bird will be begging you for a check up. The Vet will love you for this because it makes his job so easy. You can’t expect an opinion about a bird you can’t examine. Besides, it’s the best bird game I now. You’ll learn to look for the things the Vet looks for and discuss them as he does the exam. . Of all things you can teach your bird and your self is how to give him a checkup. It’s easy its fun and it may help save his life someday.

Some people look in the yellow pages for an avian Vet in their neighborhood and expect to find the Wizard of Oz. I think its better in the long run to find a serious bird doctor you can trust to give you a second opinion when you really need it and someday, when it really counts, maybe save a life.


Mike Bross
Phoenix AZ

...some excellent points here, Mike. Even if we don't all agree with every one of your comments based upon your opinions (derived from experience, no doubt?) you give us all something to consider in trying to make the best decisions for our birds. I worked with vets for years, and of course have been on the other side of the exam table most of my life, but some of these things have never occured to me...I really enjoyed this post!

ChiaOwl
http://www.owly.net
http://www.ittybittybirdiebites.com

Something to consider
I’ve been snooping around about West Nile Virus Vaccinations for pet birds. There’s not a lot of late breaking, (2004), news on the subject because, I suspect, it’s a big liability issue.
I’ve called some vets and they refuse to recommended or not recommend getting my birds vaccinated. However, it seems like those in the know are quietly getting their own birds vaccinated. I had an occasion to pose the question of vaccination to an acquaintance that is a very well known and highly respected avian vet in southern California yesterday. His comment was. “It’s something you may won’t to seriously consider.” and then added “I have vaccinated my birds and have several friends that have their birds vaccinated”. I can tell you that the San Diego Zoo has vaccinated its birds and the Zoo near you in Phoenix has completed vacating almost all its birds including the macaws.

Mike Bross
Phoenix AZ

Vet sued for "over clipping" parrot's wings
April 16, 2004 (Baltimore) — The owners of an African gray parrot have sued a veterinarian alleging the young bird's wing feathers were over clipped -- causing her to over-prune herself.

As early as this month, a Baltimore County, Maryland, judge could review the lawsuit filed against the vet who says something else caused the bird's condition.

The bird doc says feather picking is caused by "boredom, sexual isolation and frustration" and sometimes by various nutritional and medical problems.

Her owners say they took their parrot, Mojo, to have her wings clipped in October 2002 and she hasn't been herself since.

The couple's asking for 25-hundred dollars.

Mike Bross
Phoenix AZ

Hmmm... I wonder how much clipping the owners had in mind, and how much clipping the vet did. My guess here is that the bird's feather destruction has approximately nothing to do with the clipping...

If the owners really think clipping causes plucking they ought to be kicking themselves (not the vet) for having its feathers clipped at all in the first place. There's no money in that, though. (Color me cynical...) Besides, I know a fully flighted grey that still plucks, so I kinda doubt there's a connection here.

If the bird was clipped against the owner's wishes, I'd say they have a case. If the bird was horrendously clipped, then again I'd say they have a case. If the bird was clipped any less than any given mature and non-plucking grey, I'd hope they lose their case and look into NOT clipping in the future.

Nate Waddoups
Redmond WA USA

NEW JERSEY The free flight state
Title 7. Department of Environmental Protection
Chapter 25. Division of Fish and Wildlife Rules
Subchapter 4. Endangered, Nongame and Exotic Wildlife
7:25-4.7 General possession criteria
(a) Prior to the issuance of any permit permitted by these regulations, every applicant shall, on the forms provided by the Department, demonstrate that:
1. The animal will be fed an adequate diet; and
2. The animal is housed or caged in a manner that:
i. ALLOWS THE ANIMAL TO PERFORM THE NORMAL BEHAVIOR PATTERNS OF ITS SPECIES; and
ii. Prevents disease, liberation or accidental injury to the animal and the public; and
3. The method of acquisition did not violate the laws and regulations of this State, any other state or the Federal Government; and
4. The animal shall receive prompt treatment for any illness or injury from a licensed veterinarian; and
5. The animal is free of infectious diseases and parasites which may be dangerous to the animal, livestock or people of the State, provided that the Division may request certification that the animal for which the permit is being sought is free from infectious diseases and parasites from a licensed New Jersey veterinarian or a person recognized as qualified to make such certification by the Director of the Division of Fish, Game and Shellfisheries.

It sounds to me like 2.i requires that captive birds must be allowed to fly.

How is it that in most states laws prohibit cat de-clawing, dog muzzling, horse hobbling and parrot chaining as inhumane but clipping wings is encouraged. I’ll bet the pet bird industry is the biggest lobby for clipping wings as it has about 8 million reasons, (pet birds in the US).Can you imagine if everyone was told they would have to have a permit and let their birds wings grow out. The land fills would turn into feather factories and the sky’s so full parrots the states would declare a hunting season for them. On a more serious note I would like to see someone write an article that would predict the changes to the pet bird industry and bird keeping in the US if one simple law was pasted that said “Pet bird owners could not keep clipped bird.” Would it be the end of pet bird keeping in the US?

I don’t think this vet has to worry about the 25 hundred because I think from a legal standpoint pet birds are generally considered personal property and have the same legal status as a toaster or VCR. With out showing that the vet caused the owners personal injury I expect at the most he is only obligated for the replacement cost of the bird. I would really be curious to hear some insurance company inside info related to malpractice insurance and vet law suits by bird owners but I think that’s kept pretty confidential

Mike Bross
Phoenix AZ

2. The animal is housed or caged in a manner that:
i. ALLOWS THE ANIMAL TO PERFORM THE NORMAL BEHAVIOR PATTERNS OF ITS SPECIES; and

Flying is a normal behavior of most birds so #2 is a requirement as stated by that law

Can you imagine if everyone was told they would have to have a permit and let their birds wings grow out.

Permit would certainly defer a lot of people from keeping a parrot. I don't like laws but if a permit was requied to "own" anything that was non-human and living a lot of problems would go away.

one simple law was pasted that said “Pet bird owners could not keep clipped bird.” Would it be the end of pet bird keeping in the US?

Could you imagine. A lost bird and thousands of concerned like owners looking as their birds fly in for the night looking for others.

I would really be curious to hear some insurance company inside info related to malpractice insurance and vet law suits by bird owners but I think that’s kept pretty confidential

Very confidential. We have a bird place here in Sterling, Virginia on Davis Drive that has taken DEAD birds to a vet clinic here. The birds were diagnosed with PDD. The breeder, was asked to shut down and quarantine. Did they no, too much $$$$$. Can't get the vet to confirm or deny anything. So these people continue to sell hundreds of birds when they know there is PDD x 4 at least in their shop. Email me if you want the exact name. How do I know this? There is a tech that works there and goes to my wife for haircuts.

I have been very fortunate with the health care of my birds as I take them to the following;

Gary A. Gallerstein, D.V.M.
Also the author of "The Complete Bird Owners Handbook"
ISBN #1895270251


1040 North Broadway
Escondido, (CA)
USA 92026
Tel : 760 745-8115
Fax : 760 745-7814
Emergency : 760 745-8115


Description
Acacia Animal Health Center is a complete pet medical and wellness center. We focus on maintaining and enhancing that amazing bond our clients have with their pets. From puppy wellness and training classes to geriatric medicine and specialized boarding, Acacia Animal Health Center is a full service hospital and boarding facility. State of the art equipment and procedures combined with an incredible staff of professionals, serve to provide outstanding medical and surgical care. Multi species medicine is a special area of interest as well. Birds, reptiles, rabbits, pocket pets, pigs and ferrets are just some of the variety of pets we treat.


Services
In-house Diagnostic Laboratory, Surgery, Laser Surgery, Endoscopy, Ultrasound, Radiology and radiologist consultation w/every radiograph, Cardiology, Dentistry, Dental radiographs, Blood pressure monitoring equipment, Pharmacy, Behavioral counseling and classes (birds and dogs), Full species Boarding, Hydrosurge Bathing, Nutritional counseling and large stock of products for dogs/cats and exotics,

It's nice to know that they are in the hands of the Man that "wrote the book".

These Vets have been collected from other boards that I belong to and are Avian certified:

R. Mohan, DVM, MS, PhD
Practice Limited to Birds
7152 E. Main St., Suite B
Reynoldsburg, OH 43068
Hours by appointment: 614-755-2273
Fax: 614-755-2112
Vet Tech: Elise
Hours: Typically, appointments start at noon; open on Saturdays, too

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEAVS
Stahl exotic animal vetrinary services
111-A Center St. South
Vienna, Va 22180
phone 703-281-3750
fax: 703-281-3730
www.seavs.com
Scott J Stahl DVM,DABVP
Avian Board Certified
Birds-reptiles-small mammals

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Dr. Brian Loudis DVM, ABVP
Board Certified in Avian Practice
All Pets Animal Hospital
285 North El Camino Real, Suite 105
Encinitas CA 92024
(760) 634-2022.
Monday-Friday: 7:30am - 6:00pm
Saturday: 9:00am - 2:00pm
Sunday and Major Holidays: Closed
www.allpetsanimal.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary A. Gallerstein, D.V.M.
1040 North Broadway
Escondido, (CA)
USA 92026
Tel : 760 745-8115
Fax : 760 745-7814
Emergency : 760 745-8115

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lange Veterinary Center
Laura A. Lange D.V.M.
195 Paseo Del Sol
Lake Havasu City
Arizona, 86403
(928) 453-2022
http://www.langevet.com/index.html

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Dr. Richard Woerpel & Dr. Rosskopf (Avian specialists)
Avian Exotic Hospital
4871 W. Rosecrans
Hawthorne, CA 90250
310.679.0693

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Florida
Dr Daryl Nick Backos - 954-427-0777
Deerfield Beach, FL -

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Dr Greg John Harrison - 561-964-2121
Lake Worth, FL

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NY:
Dr Cyndi Brown
Dr Katherine E. Quesenberry -
Dr Lauri Hess
Animal Medical Center 212- 838-7053
510 East 62nd st
NY NY 10021


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Buffalo NY area:
Dr. Laura Wade, DVM, Dipl ABVP (Avian)
All Creatures Animal Hospital and
Advanced Avian and Exotic Pet Care
6429 Transit Rd., East Amherst, NY
716.636.3600

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NJ
Dr James Nicholas McKinley - 908-369-7373
Hillsborough, NJ

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Pa:
Dr Karen Rosenthal (U of Penn) - 215-573-8565
Philadelphia, PA

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Dr Avery Bennet (inner treakia surgical specialist)
Philadelphia, PA (U of Penn) 215-573-8565

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IL
Dr. Scott McDonald
Midwest Bird & Exotic Animal Hospital
192 South Manheim Road
Westchester, IL 60154
(708) 344-8166

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Dr. Christa Wallis DVM
22026 W 66th Street
Shawnee, KS
66226
913-422-0301
Emergency clinic available at the same number

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I'll add more as I get them from others that can verify that they are good Vets.
Hope that hleps a bit

Hi Janet, costs depends on your bird. Wellness checkups once a year aren't that expensive, but when things go wrong... and that goes for any species. Jo started having seizures not long after we got him. The first avian vet I took him to was awful. He said we were terrible owners, feeding our bird junk and ruining his health. I became teary when he said he would have to keep Jo overnight to do Xrays and blood tests, because Jo was just starting to trust us. He lit up a smoke and said he didn't have time for this nonsense and stormed out. I picked up Jo and left, wondering if Jo was going to die, but not willing to leave him there. What was wrong with this vet? 1; He knew everything, it was his way or no way. He didn't listen to my concerns at all. 2; Jo was handled unneccesarily, and was distressed by this. We were only just getting him used to being handled again after years of neglect. All his feathers were wrecked. 3; He insisted on keeping Jo for a prolonged period, in an area with other birds who were being treated for all sorts of things, and it didn't look that clean.
The second avian vet is still our vet. He listened quietly while I told him the problems, asked relevent questions, answered questions in a simple polite way, explained our options and what he felt was the best one. Then he waited patiently til Jo came out of his travel cage (no chasing around and around), scooped him up expertly in a towel with no fuss or messed feathers, had him under aneasthetic in a couple of minutes, examination, bloods, xrays done and back with us in less than an hour. His vet clinic looks clean and uncluttered. It is worth the 200km round trip. Jo needs an aneasthetic to be examined properly, he won't tolerate even me lifting his wings, and though it costs more, it's much less stressful for him. He has been feather chewing a bit which was picked up at his last wellbird check. Some birds pluck or mutilate, which can be very expensive. It's just the same for any animal, some go once a year for their checkups and shots, and never have any other problems, some seem to either be walking accidents or unable to stay well. One of our new pups has been on antibiotics 4 times in the 16 months we've had her, and everything goes wrong for her. The other pup just has no problems, little injuries heal up, no urine infections, no burst heamatomas, no infected dermatitis, no abscesses... Your bird could be like one pup or the other, (or like your dog who sounds like our Betsy, the walking disaster) but you won't know til you've had it a few years. At least be able to have a few hundred dollars somewhere, some people have a credit card just for bird expenses, in case, so if your bird needs a vet, money isn't a issue. nicky

In Massachusetts there is a grand total of one board-certified avian vet, Connie Orcutt. And she's kinda busy, being the director of Angell Memorial Hospital in Boston.

So my guys go to Carolyn Fletcher at Merrimack Veterinary Hospital, 235 Daniel Webster Hwy. Merrimack, NH 03054. +1 (603) 424-9922

She's great, a large bird owner herself. Doesn't presume to know it all, and goes to the web and her colleagues to ask questions, and to regular training to keep up. She listens to me, and follows up my paranoia with testing. She has tended to specialize in companion birds and other exotics in her practice. Highly recommended.

FWIW, I spend about $200 on an annual well-bird check up, give or take a zinc test. This includes a CBC, electrophoresis, gram stain, and the rest of the usual annual tests.


Chris, Dobby (YCM), and Pigwidgeon (SIE)