Well unfortunately, this board has been largely abandoned. So I don't think you will get too much advice. I only have experience with smaller birds myself. But it's pretty common for birds to be a little scared to come out of the cage when first in a new place. I'd try maybe coaxing them out on their own with treats at first, so they see it's ok out of the cage. You also should work on geting them to step up onto a hand held perch so you can handle them even if they look bitey.
It's usually not a good idea to put 2 birds together until you have developed a relationship with both of them... but I guess it's hard to have a spare macaw-sized cage around. Once you can get them out, you might want to take the time to work with each one individually.

Karen
Chico (conure) and Pippin (budgie)
WI

Scott,

As an owner of 5 macaws ranging in ages from 7 to 45 years old, I can tell for sure this is not the last time you will be biten. The breeder was not necessarily trying to mislead you. In the wild Macaws use their beaks for everything from climbing to cleaning to showing affection for one another as well as their aggression. I would love to tell you they will never do this again but most likely at some point they will. I don't know what kind of experiences you have with children but picture a 2 year old throwing a tantrum in the middle of a store and the parents trying to deal with it. Your Birds will be like two years for the next 60-70years.

I just took in a 7 year old milligold that had little handling through out his life. He is nervouse and scared and at the same time he really wants me to pay attention to him. My arms look like a battle zone but I am slowly breaking down his barrier and He has gone several days without biting me and he will come up and take food right out of my hand.

The most important thing is to not show your fear. If your birds sense your fear they will feed on it and walk all over you. You need to be firm and don't back down. You cannot avoid them becuase of fear of being biten, your birds need your interaction and the easiest time to develop a bond is as babies. If you are really afraid you can use a perch to have them step up, work with them one at a time until you learn their signals. You will see a change in there behavior when they are getting ready to really bite. As babies they are most likely just exploring and tasting and testing.

If you have not already done so go to the book store and pick up some books on macaw behaviors and handling and training. There are several training methods and many really good books. Find one that works for you and stick with it.

You need to be consistant and work with both birds each day on stepping up, use several items and places and ask them to step up over and over. Work with them for about 15 minutes at a time and only work on one skill at first. You are learning along with your birds so do not expect to much from yourself or them you will only get frustrated and so will they. Master one skill at a time and as you build trust you will become more confident in your abilities to handle your birds. You can reward them with a treat(there are serveral kinds you can purchase made for birds or use dried chunks of fresh pieces of fruit) whatever they seem to like the best will work.

I will be happy to help you in anyway I can fee free to contact me for more help.

Keep hanging in there. Sounds like the birds may be a bit cage possessive or even "barn sour", which means they are perfectly content to stay in their enclosure and never come out. Or they may just be taking some time to adjust to you and their new surroundings. Keep working with them. Fair warning, you will likely get bitten again. Keep some ice handy. It helps.

In His Service,
Donna Seay

Hi guys and thanks for posting. I have made some great progress since my last post. When they are off their cage, they're totally affectionate and playful. It's only when they are on their cage that they get nippy, and now it's not even painful anymore, lol. I either got used to being bit, or they are being easy on me now. One is more bold than the other and bites with intent when mad, the other just nips. When they are on the couch, bed, other perches, etc... they are completely different birds. The only complaint I have is that they are really bonded. When I go to get one, neither wants to be the first to step up. They don't want to be separated. I have to get some wooden dowels and coax them on my hands one at a time and they hate the dowels. It works though and they chill once on my hand. Soon as I take one out of the sight of the other, they start making some noise. Once outside and together though they are really content and happy. It's when I try to get them to step up from their cage that I get bit hard. Once off and away from their house they step up and act as any hand fed bappy. So......"We" are trying to work through it and we'll get there I'm sure.

Another question I have is we are looking into buying a Scarlet. I have 2 females already, so should I get another female, or go with a male? Does it matter? How can I be sure they will get along? Can the Scarlet be housed with my B&G's right away, or do I need to quarantine the Scarlet?

Anyway, I will find the answers regardless, but any other info would be great. Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience. I really appreciate the help you guys!

Birds are people too!

Scott

(Zazoo)

Hi,

Thanks for the awesome info! Great advice and it has made it's way into my bird care bible for sure! lol.

I want to add a Scarlet to our family. What are your thoughts on that and what advice could you offer? I elaborated further on another recent post in the forum.

Thanks again!

Scott

Scott,

Sorry I am just getting back to you. I have 5 Macaws as I said, I have a Military, 2 blue and golds, one milligold and one scarlet. I do not house any of them together. I will however allow them to play together on the playstands supervised. If they decide they don't like each other they can really do some damage. As far as adding a new bird. It does not matter what the sex is since you will not be breeding, if you want to avoid the bonding problems you have with your blue and golds than keep them in seperate cages. If they are allow to house together there is more of a chance of bonding and then you are not needed.

As for what you posted about the blue and golds, it sounds like you are getting a handle on things. Being a bonded pair makes it more difficult for the reason you stated no one wants to be the first one to come out, so they act aggressively because it problably worked in the past to get people to leave them alone. Like you said after a while you don't feel the bites anymore you just look like a human pin cushion and an abstract painting of blue,green and black all in one(LOL)

I thought there was a way to send a private message to some one on this board but I do not see one. I know most boards do not like email addresses being posted. I will try and check the board more often now that I know someone actually read my posts. Iwas not sure in the beginning because there are so few people using this board. But I am more than happy to try and help you out. I figure someone should benefits of my years of brusing and biting.(LOL)

Hey Zaz,

No problem with the delays, I only check in once a week or so. Things are going pretty good and I don't know if buying another bird will make things worse. Progress is study and I only get bit when they are on their cage and normally it doesn't hurt (real bad).
I have found that when they go to bite, if I pull them into me with their beak hooked over my finger they immediately knock off the BS and step on up. Sometimes I good a good bite though.
These little freaks discovered that when they bite my larger fingers it doesn't deter me, but when they get the end of my pinkie finer....OUCH!
Today I made the mistake of taking them outside without a shirt. As I had Grace against my chest she lost her balance and decided to cling for dear life to my nipple....OUCH!
I love them and they are doing so much better. We are still not where I want to be, but we have only been together a couple months and I am sure things will come together.
Lately we have been playing and I can really see them enjoy playing with me. We play "Got your nose" and they love it. I talk like a little girl saying " I'm gunna get your nose" and then I move my fingers all around, eventually grabbing a beak and shaking it gently side to side. They just love it and make the cutest sounds. I never really thought they would like to play like puppies do.
I cant wait to discover more fun stuff!

Scott

Scott,

Keep up the good work!!! I know what you mean about the hanging on for dear life, My Blue and Gold Sierra has horrible balance and she is scared of her own shadow, THe first time I ever brought her outside, at the exact moment I opened the door, THe neighbors kids came running up the driveway, Sierra did a flip around my arm and grabbed my hand as she was falling, I have a scar that runs across the entire lenght of my hand, and of course to make matters worse the kids start to scream at the site of this bird hanging on for dear life from my hand. I think when I screamed STOP AND BE QUIET everyone including the bird was afraid my head was going to explode. Its one of those things that is no ones fault and cannot be avoided, but I needed all the commotion around me to stop so Sierra would release her death grip on my hand.

So anyways you are not alone with your scar count, A good friend and I always say if you have never been bite by your bird, than you must not be handling them enough LOL. Its the nature of the beast or bird in this case.

Now for advise. If they are constantly going fter your fingers than when you approach them offer your forearm and make sure your hand is in a loose fist, you do not want to scare them but I am sure you have become fond of your fingers and really don't want your birds to have them for dinner.

Approach them and offer only the back of your hand, never reach out palm first(Like you are signaling stop, it is so hard to communicate what your body language needs to be through email) Unlike Eagles and Hawks, Parrots are Prey animals and not Predators. So body language is very important when working with them. If they are very nervous you do not want to stand striaght in front of them, turn your body so only one shoulder is pointing at the cage and birds. also dropping your head slightly down and to the side(the way they look at up) will sometimes reassure them. You want to make sure they do not feel like you are there to attack, you are not a predator and you will not harm them is what your boby language needs to say.

Bonded birds will always be more difficult to work with because they would rather stay together than play with you but it sounds like you are doing a good job convincing them they can have fun with you. Save their favorite foods to offer when you want to work with them also try and work with them before your feed them, this way they are hungry and a little more motivated to get the snack. But make sure you feed them when you are done. You do not want them to feel like you are withholding food.

Like I said before it really comes down to trust, the more your trust them the more they will trust you. If you are fearful of the bite you know is most likely coming they sense it and also become afraid. They do not know why but they figure if you are afraid there must be a good reason and they should follow your lead. Sometimes its better to offer your arm and look away slightly, if you do not see the bite coming you will not pull away to avoid it and they realize very quickly this behavior is not working.

Once you get them past this stage, they will want to come out and play, they enjoy interaction but it has to be earned.

In one of my books I read a great point. If a stranger were to walk up to you and try and grab you you would react and most likely poorly. Well our birds react the same way. You would not want to trust a person you knew for a short time completely and either do our birds, just as we expect people to earn our trust, our birds want the same thing. This is how they differ from dogs.

When you see someone walking down the street with a dog, most of the time the dog will sniff you and want you to pay attention to him, most of the time you can approach a strangers dog and he will wag his tail and love that someone new is here to play with(obviously this is not true in all cases) with birds the first time you meet them they are apphensive and may let you touch them but on their terms. They want you to prove to them, that you are worthly of their affections.

The great part is once you break through that barrior and they trust you they can be so much fun, as you are beginning to see. My daughter starting playing catch with my friends scarlet when we went to visit and she had so much fun that she taught my Military macaw to play catch with her. She is 7 years old. So obviously this is not rocket science. Zazoo was my first macaw and I have had him for 13 years, longer than my daughter has been alive. She does not handle him but she gives him treats and plays with himeveryday(supervised of course) He is my most aggressive of the 5 and he has never lunged at her or tried to bite her when she gives him treats, because she has been with him her whole life and she had never given him a reason not to trust her. But if a stranger(or even a friend of ours) approaches him watch out, he lives to scare the pants off people and sits back and laughs and of course we laugh to(even when I try really hard not to laugh) we are reinforcing this behavior but letting him know it is funny. I think once you get to know these birds you will find that they are way more entertaining than a dog. You just never know what they will do or say at any given moment. I know for sure my dogs will not look up at my husband while he talks to them and tell him to "SHUT UP" that would be my Scarlets job.

Keep me update on your progress and good luck, keep having fun with them and the skys the limits.